Lord Sharanos

Help us to help you better

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Like most of you see, the forum shows huge text linking the most common problems as well it requests to post on the specific threads if your problems fits your problems, but still some people make new threads even when their problems fit those threads, so i ask. Also veterans here don't knows 1 thread creation on Help and Support gives a red warning with a link to the most common problems threads.

What's not clear enough or what makes you to create new threads? I want to fix that to avoid the creation of new threads when the topic exists already on Guides sub-forum.
English is not your mother tongue and it's hard to read the descriptions?
You are colour blind and you don't see descriptions?
You think making a post on a existing thread don't will have attention?
What needs to be fixed on wiki to fix your database structure problems?
What needs to be fixed on wiki to fix your core installation problems?

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I'm here since about 2 years and don't feel that this forum is overcrowded of unnecessary posts.

 

A forum is also a place where different people can meet. An often mistake I see in forums is that some admins (not pointing to you) or moderators or engage members are thinking they have to read or answer EVERY post. If somebody think the level of the question doesn't fit his personal taste: Just ignore the post.

 

But if you think you can change the mankinds behaviour to walk on the easiest road, you already have lost.

 

 

BTW: TC has a very good wiki. And the forum is professional in any way. There is nothing to change, imho.

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Posted (edited)

I am new here but have been working with game Emulators for a while. Been a number of years since I have messed around with the WoW emulators but have been working with EQ emulators for a while. Trinitycore is a LOT easier to install / compile compared to the EQ versions.

Still with that being said I found the step-by-step instructions in the Wiki to be sadly lacking a LOT of crucial information. When I was stuck I tried searching and that did little but take me right back to the spot with missing information. Whomever maintains the Wiki has the unfortunate tendency to assume installers know some information and simply skip it which will tend to confuse and frustrate people (this problem is VERY common among many people unfortunately.) Many of the people that try to help or instruct others tend to make that same mistake, assuming the people being instructed know certain information.

To truly setup step-by-step instructions you must assume the people know absolutely nothing about the setup. That is the only true way to reduce the posts here asking for help.

For instance on the Wiki under the Server Setup it mostly takes you through a setup until it reaches this point:

----------------------------------------------

https://trinitycore.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/tc/pages/2130046/Server+Setup

After completing all the steps listed above you can now start your server.

Run the authserver (bnetserver on master)  and worldserver to run your server. Both must stay running for your server to accept connections to it.

Tip: The authserver (bnetserver on master) allows you to enter your username (email on master)/password to connect to the Realm Selection screen, and the worldserver allows you to connect to the realm itself. Once you are in-game, the authserver (bnetserver on master) can be safely closed if you wish.

DO !NEVER! create an account directly into your database unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what and how to do!

The "3" is the GM account level (higher numbers = more access), and the "-1" is the realm ID that stands for "all realms".

------------------------------------------------

Then after that it tells you to startup the worldserver and login using the account you just created?!?!

Nowhere in there does it tell you HOW to create the account nor does it tell you how to set the GM access level other than the last line telling you that "3" is GM level... I had to experiment for 10 minutes to figure it out on my own but I was only able to do it because I was used to working in a similar environment with the EQ emulators... But looking back on it there is a very confusing and veiled comment to how the authserver allows you to create the account but it never says "Type this into the authserver command window to create your account" which would prevent a lot of confusion and questions being asked (especially since it should be typed into the worldserver window instead)...

Then after telling you to start the worldserver and to create the account it tells you somewhat how to install the databases... Shouldn't the database install come BEFORE telling people how to create an account in the database??

All-in-all, other than downloading and compiling the core, the wiki and FAQ are mostly useless for new people for help... So far I have searched everywhere and I can't find the answer to one simple question that should be in a FAQ or guide somewhere, how to run server / GM commands in-game??? I am sure there is a way but have yet to discover it...

IMHO to reduce the number of help posts and duplicates you really need to overhaul many of the newbie FAQ's and Wiki help / install sections with a good sense of how a person that has never worked with an emulator install before should proceed...

Edited by Blindaviator
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Trinity core is an evolving work for about 10 years. Therefore a lot of things has changed in the past (even the wiki software) and so it's not possible to hold the wiki every day up to date. If you have questions please use the forum or if you think some parts in the wiki needs to be better descripted you can do this even yourself if you want. (That's the idea of a wiki btw.)

I have changed today the page for GM commands. Hope it will help you better. https://trinitycore.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/tc/pages/2130065/GM+Commands

And I agree that may some parts are confusing like the fact that the database part follows after the core starting part. Maybe somebody else will have a look on that.

But in general I can say the wiki contains really a lot of important and detailed information.

 

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42 minutes ago, Magnuss said:

Trinity core is an evolving work for about 10 years. Therefore a lot of things has changed in the past (even the wiki software) and so it's not possible to hold the wiki every day up to date. If you have questions please use the forum or if you think some parts in the wiki needs to be better descripted you can do this even yourself if you want. (That's the idea of a wiki btw.)

I have changed today the page for GM commands. Hope it will help you better. https://trinitycore.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/tc/pages/2130065/GM+Commands

And I agree that may some parts are confusing like the fact that the database part follows after the core starting part. Maybe somebody else will have a look on that.

But in general I can say the wiki contains really a lot of important and detailed information.

 

I agree it has a lot of good information especially with pulling the latest build from Git and compiling / installing but kinda drops off from there...

Just looked at the GM commands and the changes help a lot... Once I get to understanding Trinitycore better I will try to help with updating Wiki if I have access... Don't feel comfortable trying to do any changes as of yet...

Most of mine will have to be for Windoze right now as my computer here doesn't like Linux at all... The AMD video card has serious issues with LInux (won't run any flavor of linux GUI without crashing)...

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Hi,

Not sure how welcome this information is, but here is my honest opinion.

I have worked on Everquest as well, and the documentation is superior to that.

It took me 4 days of giving up multiple times before I could get the installation guide working.

It really could do with a Feynman workover.

I am writing Spellscripts, creature scripts, conditions, hooks, cross-refencing data in DBCs, and are able to write more complex scripts.

However, this is from a detailed and ongoing one on one tutorial from someone who has used the codebase for many years.

I think we need working examples on how to write quests/scripts/hooks/conditions/summons/mounting vehicles/etc

Right now I cannot get a creature to spawn on a mount, trying vehicle_accessory and vehicle_template_accessory to no avail.

It needs a really comprehensive FAQ, searchable, which answers every dumb question, has every step in Feynman detail, and a working in-code example of how to use the tables.

There are tables that are in the master core that only have documentation for 3.3.5 definitions.

There are tables in the master that are not specified, and must be guessed at.

I have made contributions here, and spent a great deal of work doing so, only to have the eventual commit criticized by "the" senior developer, even though it solved trainers for 6.X getting working where they have never worked before.

So I will never make another contribution because new contributors are NOT encouraged, but told to use the sniffer, but yet there are no detailed instructions on how to use it, to cross-reference entries and find missing data.

I am glad you are asking how you can improve.

From my experience above, I could have become a solid contributor if I was encouraged, and not treated like crap when I put in a heap of work to try and improve the core without any knowledge of how it worked.

The reason I had no knowledge is the documentation gave me none.

No offense intended with this post.

You asked how you could make it easier.

1. A Feynman workover on all guides

2. A detailed FAQ for every dumb question, with a nice answer

3. Stop criticism of contributors who are doing their best and trying to help, but fall short of the lofty standards of the core developer(s)

Thanks,

Glenn

 

 

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8 hours ago, Blindaviator said:

I am new here but have been working with game Emulators for a while. Been a number of years since I have messed around with the WoW emulators but have been working with EQ emulators for a while. Trinitycore is a LOT easier to install / compile compared to the EQ versions.

Still with that being said I found the step-by-step instructions in the Wiki to be sadly lacking a LOT of crucial information. When I was stuck I tried searching and that did little but take me right back to the spot with missing information. Whomever maintains the Wiki has the unfortunate tendency to assume installers know some information and simply skip it which will tend to confuse and frustrate people (this problem is VERY common among many people unfortunately.) Many of the people that try to help or instruct others tend to make that same mistake, assuming the people being instructed know certain information.

To truly setup step-by-step instructions you must assume the people know absolutely nothing about the setup. That is the only true way to reduce the posts here asking for help.

For instance on the Wiki under the Server Setup it mostly takes you through a setup until it reaches this point:

------------------------------------------------

Then after that it tells you to startup the worldserver and login using the account you just created?!?!

Nowhere in there does it tell you HOW to create the account nor does it tell you how to set the GM access level other than the last line telling you that "3" is GM level... I had to experiment for 10 minutes to figure it out on my own but I was only able to do it because I was used to working in a similar environment with the EQ emulators... But looking back on it there is a very confusing and veiled comment to how the authserver allows you to create the account but it never says "Type this into the authserver command window to create your account" which would prevent a lot of confusion and questions being asked (especially since it should be typed into the worldserver window instead)...

Then after telling you to start the worldserver and to create the account it tells you somewhat how to install the databases... Shouldn't the database install come BEFORE telling people how to create an account in the database??

All-in-all, other than downloading and compiling the core, the wiki and FAQ are mostly useless for new people for help... So far I have searched everywhere and I can't find the answer to one simple question that should be in a FAQ or guide somewhere, how to run server / GM commands in-game??? I am sure there is a way but have yet to discover it...

IMHO to reduce the number of help posts and duplicates you really need to overhaul many of the newbie FAQ's and Wiki help / install sections with a good sense of how a person that has never worked with an emulator install before should proceed...

create account part was on client setup. AFTER database install. and now moved to own topic not to database setup where it don't have sense to be.

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4 hours ago, AussieGuy said:

1. A Feynman workover on all guides

2. A detailed FAQ for every dumb question, with a nice answer

3. Stop criticism of contributors who are doing their best and trying to help, but fall short of the lofty standards of the core developer(s)

Thanks,

Glenn

I try really really hard point 1 and 2, most of people don't have problems, but some people ignores EVERY readme (ie they start new threads for the same questions answered on readme 1st, and told to post on existing threads for compile, (m)(v)maps or connection issues, this topic was created to those specific people :)

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4 hours ago, Aokromes said:

create account part was on client setup. AFTER database install. and now moved to own topic not to database setup where it don't have sense to be.

Yeah I had moved it to the database page for it to make better sense than what it was before (it flowed better). I wasn't sure how to create a new page and setup links. I see you re-arranged it all to make better sense now.

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