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Frondor

World of Warcraft: Legion

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Start by preparing your sniffers! I have the feeling that the best expansion (after wotlk) is about to come!
I'm really excited about Legion... The main idea and features coming are amazing in my opinion! 
I don't like that much the idea about wielding legendary weapons like ashbringer and doomhammer, but if they are used only to fight in PvE, then I'm ok with it :D What do you think about it?

PD: WoD was disastrous

Edited by Frondor
typo, wrote so fast

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Start by preparing your sniffers! I have the feeling that the best expansion (after wotlk) is about to come!
I'm really excited about Legion... They main idea and features coming are amazing in my opinion! 
I don't like that much the idea about wielding legendary weapons like ashbringer and doomhammer, but if they are used only to fight in PvE, then I'm ok with it :D What do you think about it?

PD: WoD was disastrous

​Agreed, WoD was a complete joke.  Legion is going to be fantastic and Blizz is FINALLY separating PvP talents from PvE - No more boohoos about "x class is too OP *cry cry*"

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git checkout -b 7.x

 

Watching! ^^

I don't think there's gonna be a final patch for WoD, but a pre-patch for Legion, all the intro thingie and bla bla bla...
I'm wondering if all the work done on 6.x branch will be applicable into a possible 7.x ♥

Edited by Frondor

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WoW is not being written from scratch, every patch is an iteration over the previous so most work from previous versions is applicable to later versions.

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They said they will not release any more dungeon/raid, so there is no reason for a major number to increase. I am sorry to say that it is very unlikelly we see any 6.3. But they still have to implement flying as they promised (unless they listened to all the cryers about fly hating)

BTW, offtopic, but I discovered that wearing a horde tshirt to a concert makes MUUUUCH people to recognize you, I was so impressed hehe

Edited by StormByte

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From the outside view it seems to be a target conflict between core developers entertainment for newest features and the lag of server content updates?

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https://community.trinitycore.org/topic/11714-world-of-warcraft-legion/

ZOMG!!! Dissension and criticism... shut them up... quick, quick.

All I play is the 3.3.5 project but what Maxxgold was saying was not unfair or untrue. If that is your definition of 'too rough' then you need therapy to learn to better cope with people that don't immediately fall to their knees because someone has a <Dev> tag under their name.

Every time someone criticizes the state of TC's attempts to move forward it's always the same 'What have you contributed?' Sorry that us peasants aren't uber-coders like all of the recognized developers but ya'all are just slightly more advanced than we are. The complexity of the project makes it very difficult for someone to just jump in and make real and substantial changes. Even making minor fixes is near impossible for the majority of us that would like to contribute due to the lack of assistance that is available and the convolution without documentation. I haven't looked recently so it might have changes but even the setup directions are incomplete. The wiki gets you about 70% of the way then leaves the user to figure out the rest on their own. And yes, I realize that something like that is a fix that would be perfect for a person like me to do but by the time we get it sorted and working... but why bother? By the time we get to that point we've likely suffered some sort of abuse and have already been alienated.

For instance- https://community.trinitycore.org/topic/12113-gameobject-browser/

Me: There's a few mislabeled gobjs in the DB.

Arokomes: You're WRONG. The TDB is perfect and you don't know how to look up an object by name and don't know the difference between a modelID and a gobjID.

Me: No it's not. I don't know everything about the project but I know that Skybreaker is not a Chapel. ::proof::

::cricket, cricket::

Arokomes: ::Closes next well intentioned thread, no discussion::

 

A fucking apology would have been nice. Maybe some encouragement or review? Maybe stop getting so butt-hurt over a bit of criticism that is not untrue? 4.x was a joke. 5.x didn't happen. 6.x didn't happen. But "oooh, look out, here comes 7.x and it's going to be different. We're going to get caught up with all the changes and this is going to be our next stable branch." "Uhhh... probably not?" "Shut up, what have you done?" "You're being mean to us developers, shut up- no one gets to talk about this new expansion anymore."

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1 hour ago, m_pan said:

The complexity of the project makes it very difficult for someone to just jump in and make real and substantial changes.

 

lul, like current and past contributors worked on a simpler source code. It looks like the usual excuse.

You might want to check http://blog.smartbear.com/programming/14-ways-to-contribute-to-open-source-without-being-a-programming-genius-or-a-rock-star/

2 hours ago, m_pan said:

The wiki gets you about 70%

Improving the wiki is a good start for contributors and it doesn't require any programming knowledge. It only requires the will to work on it.

2 hours ago, m_pan said:

If you have a problem with Aokromes take it to PM

2 hours ago, m_pan said:

Maybe stop getting so butt-hurt

I don't think Aokromes can get butt-hurt. I see only 1 person who's lost control of his emotions here.

 

A little bit more on topic about 335 being updated for no good reason, I can assure you I'm going to update 335 many times for reasons that users won't see as good reasons but that a C++ developer would see as the most important and relevant things to do.

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Oh boy..

first of all, don't back up Maxxgold. He quite obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's completely oblivious. He was not providing any constructive criticism, he was bashing, clearly. That is why the thread was locked. If you truly believe that TC has only "shined up" other peoples work, then you also don't know what you are talking about or are oblivious. MaNGOS is a big part of what makes TC so great, but NOT the sole reason, not even remotely close. I would list off some of the massive things that TrinityCore has done which greatly impacted the quality of TrinityCore, but it's really not worth the effort. I suspect all the time I'm spending typing this is completely futile, as they say haters gonna hate. Anyone who has used ManGOS aswell as TrinityCore would know, and anyone who has paid attention to TC's work over the past few years would also know.

The wiki is perfectly fine, I had a friend use it to set up TC for the first time just the other day. the only problems she had were things she missed / misread in the guide, and the vmap batch file code was missing for some reason. There are obviously some rare cases where you encounter some issue that the wiki doesn't have any information about, but nothing is perfect. 95% of times if you're having issues it's because you fucked something up or missed something. In that 5% case, that's where the TC IRC is useful.

Regarding support: TC devs dont have to give ANY support, they choose to. therefor you have no right to cry about how you were treated. Aokromes did nothing wrong, he is in fact correct, TDB data should ALWAYS be correct, as it is taken directly from blizzard. There are however some cases where data could be wrong, albeit incredibly unlikely. Aokromes did nothing to mistreat you. he told you what he knows. If you are correct and there is a mistake, you are foolish to think that Aokromes should kiss your feet and beg forgiveness if you are correct and what he said isn't. Would it be polite to apologize if you are correct? perhaps, but as i said they can do or not do what ever they'd like. TC is giving support purely because they want to.

7.x- no one said it would be the next thing TC works on, wat? but also, Maxxgold was crying that TC "doesn't want to finish what they start", and your argument is that you don't like the state of 4.x or 6.x, both of you choose to cry to or bash the developers, which really makes absolutely no sense to me. Why in the world would you bash or whine about the very people who are working towards doing what you are wanting? If anyone is to blame for progress not being as fast as someone would like, it is the very people who are saying that progress isn't fast enough. They are the very ones who could have the power to speed up progress to their liking, yet they choose to stand by and watch / whine. They have no right. That being said, the state of 6.x is quite good in my opinion. I believe that TC should have a great back end, which few people are able to develop, and users should work on the front end, which requires little skill, and is much more fun for most. front end is scripts / most db things. Having a great backend provides the grounds for which virtually anyone can learn and modify things to their liking, while also limiting the expanse of private servers. Obviously my view of this is not the majority view, so I don't expect anyone to understand or share my view.

Now, as for contributing. Yes, it is very difficult to learn what would be required to contribute enough to TC to make a difference, there is no doubt about that. I myself have been working with TC for just under 4 years and still don't consider myself as skilled or wise as some of TC's best. That doesn't mean people should give up and resort to nonconstructive criticism or whining about the people who are knowledgeable not doing enough as they'd like. It takes a lot of time and a lot of motivation, but it can be done.

 

I expect if you were to reply to this, it would be something along the lines of "I'm not crying", you are. You are frustrated that Aokromes didn't follow up with a post regarding what you said, so you jump to conclusions. Then you back someone who is blatantly bashing the people who work on the project, and the work they've done, only to try and prove a misguided point that you believe he was giving useful criticism/information like you, and that TC is repressing people who try to give criticism or information. Some types of criticism are good, such as ways to improve code or a certain aspect of development. criticism about how much is being done or what is being done is NOT useful, ever. it provides no possible beneficial result.

Edited by Zedron
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4 hours ago, Zedron said:

If you truly believe that TC has only "shined up" other peoples work, then you also don't know what you are talking about

I find https://github.com/memononen/recastnavigation/pull/18 to be a perfect example to prove the point above: a TrinityCore developer finds a bug in the OpenSource project recastnavigation used for Path Finding, submits a pull request, it gets merged and a MaNGOS developer thanks the TrinityCore developer for the work done https://github.com/memononen/recastnavigation/pull/18#issuecomment-45236471 .

That's the OpenSource spirit :D

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8 hours ago, m_pan said:

Arokomes: You're WRONG. The TDB is perfect and you don't know how to look up an object by name and don't know the difference between a modelID and a gobjID.

Bzt

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12 hours ago, jackpoz said:

1) lul, like current and past contributors worked on a simpler source code. It looks like the usual excuse.

2) You might want to check http://blog.smartbear.com/programming/14-ways-to-contribute-to-open-source-without-being-a-programming-genius-or-a-rock-star/

3) Improving the wiki is a good start for contributors and it doesn't require any programming knowledge. It only requires the will to work on it.

4) If you have a problem with Aokromes take it to PM

5) I don't think Aokromes can get butt-hurt. I see only 1 person who's lost control of his emotions here.

6) A little bit more on topic about 335 being updated for no good reason, I can assure you I'm going to update 335 many times for reasons that users won't see as good reasons but that a C++ developer would see as the most important and relevant things to do.

1) That may or may not be. I do know that. I do know that there have been new methods implemented by developers without any accompanying documentation. Those new ways are undoubtedly for the better, just not as easy to pick up on without serious coaching.

2) I have. I lost an entire night to that and the other stuff in that thread.

3) As I think I said- You're right. But I also know that there was a better walkthrough before that one replaced it.

4) Probably should have. Just didn't see anything coming from that. I understand why he locked it, I just don't think he considered why I tried going about it like that. I didn't want to post it to the bug tracker for someone else to fix, my intent was for it to be something of a log to refer so I could learn to fix myself and apply that to other quests. For instance... I couldn't find the video for One Shot, One Kill on YouTube and just a few hours later Maibenrai was able to find and link it for me. Don't know why I couldn't find it as I was writing that post... found that exact video just a couple weeks ago just not that night.

5) That's your opinion. I still maintain that the Legion thread was not at the point of needing to be locked.

6) And that's great and I thank you for that. 3.3.5 is where my heart is at. I'd like to *try* later expansions but that is beside the point. Fact of the matter is that building a 7.x is going to require the changes that happened in 4, 5 and 6 to be addressed and they haven't been. Likely won't be either. Soon enough Blizz is going to be rolling 8 out and 7 will be added to the list of 4, 5, and 6.

12 hours ago, Zedron said:

1) first of all, don't back up Maxxgold. He quite obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's completely oblivious. He was not providing any constructive criticism, he was bashing, clearly.

2) That is why the thread was locked. If you truly believe that TC has only "shined up" other peoples work, then you also don't know what you are talking about or are oblivious.

3) as they say haters gonna hate.

4) The wiki is perfectly fine... ...There are obviously some rare cases where you encounter some issue that the wiki doesn't have any information about, but nothing is perfect.

5) Regarding support: TC devs dont have to give ANY support, they choose to. therefor you have no right to cry about how you were treated. Aokromes did nothing wrong, he is in fact correct, TDB data should ALWAYS be correct, as it is taken directly from blizzard.

6) If you are correct and there is a mistake, you are foolish to think that Aokromes should kiss your feet and beg forgiveness if you are correct and what he said isn't. Would it be polite to apologize if you are correct?

7) 7.x- no one said it would be the next thing TC works on, wat?

8) is that you don't like the state of 4.x or 6.x,

9) it is the very people who are saying that progress isn't fast enough. They are the very ones who could have the power to speed up progress to their liking, yet they choose to stand by and watch / whine.

10) users should work on the front end, which requires little skill, and is much more fun for most. front end is scripts / most db things.

11) while also limiting the expanse of private servers.

12) I expect if you were to reply to this, it would be something along the lines of "I'm not crying", you are.

1) He does know. Sorry. But he does. 4, 5 and 6 didn't happen and smart money says the same about 7. TC devs admittedly only work on what they want when they want. And that's their prerogative being unpaid volunteers as they are. I just find it disingenuous to keep promoting the next expansion as when things are going to be different.

2) No I don't genuinely believe that. But at the same time... 4, 5 and 6 didn't make it off the ground. Did they? The thread was locked because a moderator was a bit too quick with the 'Lock' button. The level of criticism didn't quite warrant the level of response.

3) It's not about hate. I love TC because it has made it so that I can continue to play WotLK. I started retail during BC and LK will always be where my heart is. Thanks to TC I can continue to visit the places I love and remember before that dick Deathwing came through and fucked shit up,

4) Except that it's not. I know for a fact that the old guide got you all the way through the process. The new guide has nothing about setting up SQL to receive the database configuration. Doesn't address how to setup the DBs required. Yeah, I could have edited the wiki myself to address those concerns but by the time I was successful with my own install I'd been down too many false starts to be sure that the way I managed to do it was the way the devs intended. My way was closer to the old way and vague remembrances from how I did it *years* ago.

5) You're right. They don't. For the most part most of the devs do an outstanding job and things have improved considerably from when I walked away after dealing with the likes of Athena and Paradox. Do me a favor- hop in game on a dev account, do a lookup for 'chapel', spawn a 19001 and tell me that's right. Tell me I was mistaking modelIDs for GobjIDs? Tell me that TDB is perfect.

6) All it would have taken is a 'my bad, I see what you're saying now.' once I replied and clarified what I was pointing out,

7) Actually Nay implied it by posting the checkout command for the 7.x branch.

8) Notice how you left 5 out of that? And how the TC repo only has 3.x and 6.x?

9) I'm sorry that my brain does not work the same way as the TC devs. I'd love it if I could read\write code. Wish I could read sheet music too. But alas, not how I'm wired. Should I be hated on and blamed for that?

10) How 'bout you point me to the documentation for SmartAI? And don't tell me to ask questions in IRC or post my questions in the SmartAI Questions thread. Getting set to get to work then having to constantly stop and wait for assistance does nothing to help the learning curve. If there was proper documentation in place for the methods that have been implemented would allow the users to learn and work at their own pace to actually be able to make progress. There are far too many aspects of quest fixing to be able to rely on IRC and Forum questions.

11) People need to get over the existence of private servers. That is where all of the talent to do what you expect the users to do resides. I am in no way saying that TC should support PS but perhaps your animosity towards them helps contribute to them not sharing their fixes back? Not all PS are out to make a profit on the back of the work TC devs have put into it. How do you think the majority of TC users find out about TC?

12) That's your perception. Reality is that I think it's crap that a good thread got locked because someone with the power to shut it down did on the basis of very minor criticism. Things hadn't gotten 'too rough'. Address it or ignore it and move on. That thread would have still been completely viable for continuing the discussion of the next expansion.

 

7 hours ago, jackpoz said:

That's the OpenSource spirit :D

You're absolutely correct. OpenSource is great. I love the idea of OS more than I love TC... All the OS that I've been able to utilize for my own goals makes me warm and bubbly inside... Linux, Apache... TC... Love it all.

6 hours ago, LilleCarl said:

Bzt

I have no idea what that means. Sorry.

edit:\\ And just to be clear- I have made contributions to the repo. granted they were just small typos in the config files but still. I noticed it as I was going through and took the time and effort to make the commits and the pull requests.

Edited by m_pan
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1 hour ago, jackpoz said:

This is how SmartAI looks to me: http://www.masswerk.at/keypunch/?b=dGhpcyBpcyBhIHNtYXJ0YWkgZXhhbXBsZQ==

I have no clue how someone can even make a sense out of it and script creatures/quests, kudos to them.

But it's perfect for the users so the developers can concentrate on the backend. Scripting is supposed to be so easy for us plebs to pick it up and run with it...

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there are tools for editing SAI (event horizon comes to mind). yeah its jibberish reading it raw. http://collab.kpsn.org/display/tc/smart_scripts has more than enough documentation for using SAI effectively. I myself learned SAI via that very page. Why are we picking on SAI anyway, seems kinda random. SAI is only one part of what is front end development.

Edited by Zedron

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@m_pan

Maybe a small statement from me why I locked the thread. Having a constructive discussion about Legion is totally fine with me, actually it is really appreciated. I had rather my problems with the last 4 posts. They weren't in any kind related to the discussion that thread was about.
As Zedron already said: If someone is thinking that TC is just a polished Mangos, then I really have to assume that person never looked at the code or does not understand it.
I also do not understand why someone is spending time to write posts which do only spread critisicm and sarcasm. We (and I mean all contributors, not just the "TC team") do this out of fun and I don't want people to spoil this fun.

Regards
Carbenium

PS: A locked thread does not have to be locked forever...

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3 hours ago, Zedron said:

there are tools for editing SAI (event horizon comes to mind). yeah its jibberish reading it raw. http://collab.kpsn.org/display/tc/smart_scripts has more than enough documentation for using SAI effectively. I myself learned SAI via that very page. Why are we picking on SAI anyway, seems kinda random. SAI is only one part of what is front end development.

Tools or not, it still relies on cryptic field names to accomplish the goal. It's near impossible to do anything with it going off of just the field names and the little bit of info provided on the page you linked. For a person familiar with the way the core code works it probably makes a fair bit more sense. But when you're not that well versed with the way TC works behind the scenes it's an academic exercise in and of itself.

I'm not picking on SAI. Just using it as an example based off what you alleged. You said that front-end was a perfect place for users to start, SAI is the most obvious place for users to start because we've all come across quests that don't work and most users don't even get involved with the installation and setup of a server (installation wiki). What other parts of front end fixes would you suggest users get involved with?

2 hours ago, Carbenium said:

@m_pan

Maybe a small statement from me why I locked the thread. Having a constructive discussion about Legion is totally fine with me, actually it is really appreciated. I had rather my problems with the last 4 posts. They weren't in any kind related to the discussion that thread was about.
As Zedron already said: If someone is thinking that TC is just a polished Mangos, then I really have to assume that person never looked at the code or does not understand it.
I also do not understand why someone is spending time to write posts which do only spread critisicm and sarcasm. We (and I mean all contributors, not just the "TC team") do this out of fun and I don't want people to spoil this fun.

Regards
Carbenium

PS: A locked thread does not have to be locked forever...

re: PS... Yeah. Sorry but I'm skeptical that you'd go back and unlock the thread on your own without any proding to do so. As Maxx stated below- TC devs had their very own project and it went nowhere. 4.x fell completely flat and there is validity to the fact that most of the heavy lifting for TC was already done when it was forked into a new project. Improvements have been made that put TC at the front of the pack for server emulation but it was already working and stable when it was forked. That *is* a fact that can't be denied. For a long time it was a toss up between Arc and Mangos, Mangos lost steam and Arc pulled ahead but once TC came along it didn't take long to take the crown. Doesn't change the fact that the heavy lifting was done though.

The criticism probably comes in part from the self-professed 'Us devs only work on what interests us at the time' mentality. A stable, well coded project is not accomplished by doing only what is interesting and fun. It's not about bashing the project or the devs (at least not for me) as I've already professed- I have mad love for TC and truly only want it to be as good as we all know it is. Again, I just find it disingenuous to lock a needed thread in the face of a bit of criticism. Ignore it or address it and move along. If the user continues their assault of a dead equine then address the user not the thread. Its the same mentality as in-game bans having time limits or permas. Timeouts to reassess their actions, longer they insist on continuing upon their return.

52 minutes ago, Maxxgold said:

::stuff::

Now then... while I agree and defend to an extent there is a limit on the lengths that I'll go to.

There is nothing wrong with the 3.3.5 branch being improved if there is improvement to be made. Later branches are built on top of the previous code and a lot of times the commits made to the 3.3.5 branch are the result of building out later branches.

Diplomacy is key and alienating the devs will get us users no where when they get frustrated. Yes. The devs are the ones that work with the code and are better able to simply do when it comes to said code. But they have their limits just the same as us users have our limits.

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1 minute ago, Maxxgold said:

@m_pan While it's true that the code can always be better it's also true that there is a point to where the code is good enough. There is a term for when a coder tries to hard to make the perfect code. I can't think of the term now, but I'm sure someone knows. That's whats going on here. Yes it can always be better but if you keep using that as a crutch then you are never going to move on, which is what has clearly happened here.

The fact is the team here is never going to finish any future project besides making 3.3.5 the best little pony ever and sitting around silently while they go from project to project without finishing the last project needs to be addressed.

I do not disagree for the most part. But still... there is a fine line between criticism and bashing. Just as I have my limits when contributing, so do they and so do you.

Beating them down will not motivate them to work harder on a more advanced core. If you want retail quality then pony up and pay the monthly subscription for retail. I can't even imagine what goes into updating the core code for a new expansion... trying to figure out what and how the retail developers did what they do while blindfolded. I imagine it's a similar experience as if me or jackpoz looking at SAI and trying to make sense of that. Keep in mind the Blizzard programmers are some of the best in the business and get paid the big bucks to do what they do. To expect the same from open-source devs with no compensation for their efforts is a bit foolish.

If I had my way I'd love to see emulation that could go from expansion to expansion seamlessly... I'd love to see emulation be able to handle the giants (Titans?) the devs spawned to clear the realms for the BC>WotLK transition, or the way they released Deathwing to make random world attacks for WotLK>Cata but I know what expecting too much is. I'd love to see emulation that could start with Vanilla and progress to BC then WotLK the Cata and beyond. I remember being new to WoW and scrambling when my realm was getting tromped... not knowing what was happening and being trapped in Ironforge with nothing to do but log out and wait... but I know what the limits are.

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i dislike doing this as im not a confrontational person by nature, however there are some things here that need to be addressed.

first off: @Maxxgold you stated that "Trinity Core has taken a working Mangos project and shined it up really good. It's by far the best version available.Yes the code is much better now but so what. The project was completed years ago.The problem is you haven't done anything yourselves and you act like you're so much better that us lowlies."

i MUST disagree with you. YES Trinity Core Split from MaNGOS several years ago, and in fact MaNGOS is still NOT complete, however both projects are SO far apart now that they are truly both seperate now. I run BOTH CMaNGOS and TC projects and help with both however i can. One of the biggest differences is that TC has implemented boost awhile ago, where as CMaNGOS is JUST NOW STARTING to implement it.

@Maxxgold you also stated "The whole time you are working on 4.3.4 you continually updated 3.3.5, which didn't need any updating because it's been finished several times over."

JFYI to this day there are STILL broken quests, objects, spells and NPC's that are in the 3.3.5 branch of TC. if you don't believe me check the issues of TC on github and click a 3.3.5 tag.....at the time of this writing there are 196 issues relating to 3.3.5. So, 3.3.5 IS STILL NOT FINISHED.

@Maxxgold you also stated "Your'e working on 6.x.x but you still waste time with 3.3.5 because it's the only thing you have to show and deep down each and everyone of you knows 3.3.5 is the only version that will ever be playable."

have you EVER looked at the Milestones in the Issues of the Github repo of TC? if you had you would have noticed that 6x is 36% complete where as a few months ago it was down below 15%. yes it is taking some time for the devs to get things working, however there are only so many of them and they are not supermen(or women). as for the last part of your sentence, if this is how you feel, then leave.

@Maxxgold said: "Also just a note if you weren't aware. At least one person here is running a private server that makes money. I would bet there are more but I only know of one for sure. I have played on that server. So when they try to act all high and mighty about private servers you should take it with a grain of salt. The real goal of this project for some of the members is to run illegal private servers for cash." if you know this for a fact the as a part of the community it would behoove you to report it. WITH PROOF!!! Dont make a claim that you cant back.

 

Second :

@m_pan said "Arokomes: ::Closes next well intentioned thread, no discussion::" i checked the link to the thread, and that thread is still open.....so he didnt close that thread... and JSYK, you were looking up objects IN GAME instead of in the DATABASE. the game reads the database and if there is a bug in the core that effects how the db is read, then you will get crap answers in game. next time search the database directly.....use one of the database management tools listed in the requirements page of the wiki(windows tab)

@Zedron Thank you for saying what was needed to be said, even if it is a hard read. however you stated "The wiki is perfectly fine, I had a friend use it to set up TC for the first time just the other day. the only problems she had were things she missed / misread in the guide, and the vmap batch file code was missing for some reason." The wiki needs fixed atm. the LINUX tabs are missing info(unfortunately only one person can fix this atm as something is broken on the wiki website.....).

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4 minutes ago, alysher said:

1) i checked the link to the thread, and that thread is still open.....so he didnt close that thread...

2) and JSYK, you were looking up objects IN GAME instead of in the DATABASE. the game reads the database and if there is a bug in the core that effects how the db is read, then you will get crap answers in game. next time search the database directly.....use one of the database management tools listed in the requirements page of the wiki(windows tab)

 

 

1) The thread I was referring to was not linked. I didn't link it because it's really not that big of an issue to me and I *do* understand why he closed it, but I also understand why I created it. It was in regards to broken quests and I really don't expect anyone to 'side' with me on that one. For me if something goes on the bug tracker it like saying 'Hey... somebody should fix these broken quests I found' when my intent was going to be as more of a project log so I would be able to reference the quest particulars when asking for help learning to fix quests myself. Ultimately, if it went well, I was hoping it could eventually be turned into reference material for fixing similar quests. Almost like ?Discover? was doing when he was working on the Brewfest quests.

2) This has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If you are in-game and do a look-up for the string 'chapel' you get back 4-6 results (chapel doors, other stuff with 'chapel' in the name. Except one that is simply [Chapel] - 19001 but if you spawn it in-game it's actually Skybreaker. Fact of the matter is that I was wanting to spawn a 'Redridge Chapel' which is NOT in TDB *at all* I know that it's not in TDB because I searched the database directly for any instances of the ModelID. To be able to spawn the Redridge Chapel I had to create the record myself in my local copy of the database. Thought I had already explained this pretty clearly. ONCE AGAIN- REDRIDGE CHAPEL DOES NOT EXIST IN TDB, there is no record using that ModelID, and SKYBREAKER is mislabeled as CHAPEL.

http://postimg.org/image/4jjuhff43/

Take a look at that image and you *SHOULD* see what I'm talking about. gobj 1000 is my custom addition and 19001 is the default TDB. My addition (1000 - Redridge Chapel) is on top of the hill at ground level. TDB's 19001 - Chapel is the ship floating in the sky above the Redridge Chapel. 19001 IS NOT A CHAPEL. 19001 is SKYBREAKER. (And with that I am out of ways to rephrase this and I've repeated myself at least half a dozen times. If you still don't get what I'm saying... hop in game and type .gobj add temp 19001 and tell me that what spawns around you is any sort of Chapel.

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Ya know... it just occurred to me that part of the frustration is with the quickness that the moderators will lock threads. Be it if it's against some sort of rule or if the issue was solved. All the latter accomplishes is forcing users to make multiple threads for the same or similar issues. Just because an issue within a particular thread is solved shouldn't be ground to lock it. It would make much more sense to leave threads open so that the fixes for a certain issue can all be in the same place instead of spread out across multiple threads.

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